Is It Possible To Learn To Drive Stick via Video Games?

"hethoughtofcars" (hethoughtofcars)
07/30/2015 at 08:10 • Filed to: manual, driving skills

I love manual transmissions. Every car I’ve ever bought has been a manual.

With RWD performance cars they are a blast. With tiny 72 hp econoboxes you can squeeze every ounce of power out of the car. There is no waiting for the transmission to kick down when accelerating. I feel safer with a manual because it gives me more control. I’d even go so far as to say they more entertaining than slushboxes at stoplights, as you can flick them back and forth from neutral to gear. :)

The only problem is that I can’t get people who grew up with automatics to match (or occasionally even tolerate, really) my enthusiasm.

When I began learning to drive I had no choice. It was either an ‘88 Corolla with a five speed or a ‘92 Mitsubishi Expo with a five speed. Neither had so much as a tachometer so I had to learn when to shift by sound. It was being thrown into the fire (or the deep end, or whatever). The point, of course, is that if I wanted to go anywhere by car I had to do it with two feet and 3 pedals.

In my experience, attempting to teach someone who grew up for years on automatics and never learned to drive manual can be brutally difficult. The first time I attempted to imbue my wisdom I was around 19, and tried to teach a girlfriend. She ended up breaking down crying. Shockingly, there was no second lesson. Others have yelled at the car, at me and questions what makes me such an idiot that I like the extra work. Obviously this did not lead to my “students” gaining a lifelong love of the manual. Finally, a few years ago, I got someone confident enough to actually drive on public roads - but once she had done that she went back to her auto and has zero love for the stick shift.

A little over a year ago, I posed the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! about what they learned to drive “standard” (or as it is now more likely called “No Cost Option”) on. There were tons of replies from bland old cars like I learned on, to 3-on-the-tree trucks, tractors, mopeds, a tale involving a salesperson at a VW dealership teaching a potential buyer in the back lot ( !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , I still think that is insane), to video games.

Um....video games?

Since I love shift-for-yourself cars and am a big proponent of “Saving the Manuals” I’ve often considered running a driving school where new drivers learn the art of shifting. Although my teaching technique has thankfully evolved beyond making people cry, it’s still difficult to do much more than repeat “Let out the clutch, and gently give it some gas”. Inevitably this turns into violently stalling the car over and over again. Even in a parking lot, for someone who has a license, thinks they know how to drive and probably have been doing it for awhilegets frustrated and embarrassed that they can’t work a car quickly. Even after getting it down in a parking lot, driving on the street can be terrifying. I was always worried about sitting a stop light with a long line of cars behind me that once the light switched to green I would stall it. My other great fear was sitting on a hill and rolling backwards into the car behind me because I didn’t get on the gas in time. Or, alternatively, giving it too much gas and plowing into the car in front of me.

So I’m curious what those of you think driving a video game first (maybe something like Forza?) would be a non-threatening, safe way to start. I’ve never been good at racing video games however (well other than Mariokart), and I don’t know if it would even be remotely realistic in terms of simulating an actual clutch and shifter.

I know a lot of Opponauts are into those types of games. Have any of you made the leap from game to an actual manual transmission car?

Jeff Simmons is the Diecaster-in-Chief on fellow blog !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . You should check it out.

DISCUSSION (27)

Nibby > hethoughtofcars
07/30/2015 at 08:21

Kinja'd!!!

Dude, why are you posting such sexy things so early?

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > hethoughtofcars
07/30/2015 at 08:23

I mean the hardest part about driving manual is how to work a clutch. I would have to imagine any video game would just treat it as an on/off switch which would not really be helpful at all. Maybe there are more advanced games out there, but at some point it would be cheaper to buy a beater car and just use that instead for teaching. I had no trouble learning to drive my Miata on the way home from buying it but I had also already learned the harder part, just getting it into first gear. As a valet parking attendant, I occasionally had to deal with manuals but because there are so few in the US, this was rare. However in those rare occasions, all I had to do was get it in first, move it forward a few yards and then back it into a spot. It didn’t matter how long it took so I rarely even got to use the gas pedal. Just those 2 or 3 times over the last two years gave me enough experience to figure it out for real when I bought my car.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > hethoughtofcars
07/30/2015 at 08:24

Not without a really good wheel and pedal setup.

Plenty of people could get the finger coordination down when shifting on a controller, but adding the need for both feet in an actual car is not going to get translated by mashing buttons with your hands.

And, not to be a dick about it, but it sounds like your teaching methods need some work. I taught my girlfriend, now wife, how to drive a manual, and she is teaching one of the college interns at her work.

Anyone can learn to drive a manual of they want to, and are given the time and approach that best suits how they learn.

OPPOsaurus WRX > hethoughtofcars
07/30/2015 at 08:26

they would have to incorporate the catch points and stuff like that. I’m pretty sure anyone would be able to drive a manual if it wasn’t for engaging the clutch so specifically. I dunno if I replied to your last post, but my first time driving stuck was about 14 years ago. I got it fine but never left the parking lot. 13 years later I buy the WRX, no test drive just gimme, without ever having driven a stick since that parking lot. Stalled it at the first red light but I got home fine after that.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > hethoughtofcars
07/30/2015 at 08:30

Most sims autoclutch to prevent stalling, but the clutch works closer to how you’d expect in Dirt Rally. Unfortunately, being unable to feel the bite point probably makes it pretty much useless as a learning tool. You’d also have to get a set of pedals with a clutch, so you may as well just get a cheap $300 beater off of craigslist to burn the clutch out on.

kanadanmajava1 > hethoughtofcars
07/30/2015 at 08:31

I have tested Logitech’s G25 with some Gran Turismo and the gear shifting didn’t impress me. If you messed up with the clutch the gear lever still goes to it’s place but it doesn’t virtually engage the gear. And because either the clutch pedal or the shifter has any “mechanical feel” it just feels very unrealistic. Messed up shifting should cause some extra noises and engaging problems during shifting.

If you want to practice really slow and careful shifting then it might help to learn the proper arm and leg movement timing but the realistic feel will still be missing.

Nauraushaun > hethoughtofcars
07/30/2015 at 08:31

I agree with most of the things you’ve said. I like manual for the same reasons :)

But I don’t think you can teach someone with a video game. It might help, but it won’t get them there.

I once had a Logitech steering wheel with H-pattern shifter and 3 pedals, but the pedals give no feedback. It was hard enough convincing myself to use them when I was able to drive manual. You can shift with no clutch, for example, because there’s no gearbox stopping you. So that doesn’t help.

Most games could help a little. Teaching them how revs work and when to shift is something. But in most games you shift far higher than you would on the road so it’s hard to relate. You also don’t need to release the clutch and can’t stall - that’s the hard part.

That said, I’ve taught 3 girls how to drive. One had never driven, one was an accomplished auto driver, one was a capable but amateur auto driver. I think maybe you should change your approach.

In my experience, attempting to teach someone who grew up for years on automatics and never learned to drive manual can be brutally difficult.

The person I taught who already knew how to drive auto was much easier, she picked it up really quickly. I think it helped that she already knew how to handle the car, driving was second nature. All she really had to think about was the gears and clutch.

Let out the clutch, and gently give it some gas

I think this is your problem. It’s too vague. I’ve had success telling them to listen to the sound of the engine above all else, and try to accelerate/clutch in if the revs get too low to remedy the situation. If they learn to continually listen to what the engine is doing, and respond as necessary, they shouldn’t stall. I’ve tried taking it really slow too - telling them to very slowly release the clutch while trying to keep the revs at the same point.

Stapleface-Now Hyphenated! > hethoughtofcars
07/30/2015 at 08:36

I’m going to go ahead and say video games won’t help. They’re such an incredible pain in the ass to me in video games, yet I love driving a manual car, and have been doing it for 22+ years.

I think that the problem is that some of the automatics are so good these days there really isn't much of a reason to get a manual vehicle when you can still row your own (like the DSG, for instance) and get improved fuel economy too. Plus, when you're sitting in traffic, you can just leave it in auto mode and not have to deal with the hassle.

McMike > hethoughtofcars
07/30/2015 at 08:46

I think you can get the theory down by playing video games. When to shift, how to shift, knowing what gear to be in, etc...

But it won’t do shit to teach you how to start/stop. Especially on a hill.

Playing Golden Tee teaches you about how golf works, but until you pick up a club.......

qbeezy > hethoughtofcars
07/30/2015 at 09:00

To an extent. Will they learn completely? No.

But to get the motion and mechanics down before throwing them on the road and/or destroying the clutch... Yes. The only problem is that the sims don’t create a sensation ofof speed.

But yes they can learn.

miadaman? yes please > hethoughtofcars
07/30/2015 at 09:01

I feel the physical feedback of the car in response to your inputs is what makes learning more efficient. Used logitech wheels before and it just doesn’t feel the same, I was very aware it’s a video game and that in itself can brew some bad habits.

Still, when it’s down to it everything comes back to interest. I’ve taught friends with my own car who were interested and ones who weren’t, If you aren’t interested it’ll be no more than a task - in which case you’re better off using two pedals. For instance, while I know there are better ways to cook than 5 minutes stir-fry, in the end I just couldn’t be bothered.

(although as cars get more electronic in future and racing simulator becomes more sophisticated, perhaps eventually you won’t be able to distinguish the two.)

Hiroku > hethoughtofcars
07/30/2015 at 09:10

When I went to driving school (Europe), we had to have some simulator lessons (32, I think) before going out to drive in the real world. The simulator was basically like any racing game, except that instead of going fast around a track you had to drive in normal simulated roads, respect traffic signs and speed limits, yield to pedestrians on crossings, etc. And the setup was made of a real Opel Corsa dash, seats, wheel and pedals.

Kinja'd!!!

It wasn’t horribly bad at simulating the clutch operation realistically, you still had to sort of find the “bite” point and give the correct amount of gas to avoid the virtual car from stalling. So when you got to the “real” car for the first time, having never driven a car before in your life, you at least had an idea of what kind of movements you were expected to do and had at least part of the coordination already dialed in. You would probably still stall the real car a couple of times, but then it was just a matter of getting the “feel” of the real thing right, which the simulation obviously didn’t.

I suppose you could consider those simulators as a “video game” in a way, and considering how realistic racing simulators are these days, I’m sure they could be used for that purpose, even if just as an introduction or support to learning in an actual car.

beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard > hethoughtofcars
07/30/2015 at 09:19

I learnt the proper way. When I was 12 in a paddock while my dad was rolling a cigarette in the passenger seat.

no consumer grade simulator has approximated the feel of a clutch pedal yet. I think trying to learn on one would teach bad habits.

TylerLinner > hethoughtofcars
07/30/2015 at 09:33

I’ve taught a couple people to drive stick in parking lots, and both picked it up pretty quickly but neither followed up on road testing (one didn’t own a manual, and the other was looking at buying my 5spd car).

As far as teaching, the thing that works for me is to start having them let the clutch out in first gear, without gas, get rolling, and the put the clutch in and stop again. This gives them the feel for the clutch and what it does. After they’re comfortable with that, you can add gas and the process starts anew.

The problem for me is that I don’t know a lot of people. Those I do know, either know how to drive stick or have ZERO interest in learning. I’ve offered to teach my girlfriend multiple times, and she always refuses. Oh, well.

The reality is that it’s very easy to get through your entire life without this skill. You have to go out of your way to get into it, and it takes more effort. However, I get distracted in my gf’s CVT because I can’t downshift into third and second coming up to stoplights and corners, as my muscle memory has taught me. There is no engine braking. You have to keep a foot on the brake pedal because it’ll creep. The throttle delay is absolutely atrocious, and sometimes it won’t even rev up at WOT. It’s annoying to me, but she is used to it.

That’s what it comes down to. Everyone’s used to what they already do, so why change it?

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

I’ve tried to drive a manual in video games but the controls are always too unnatural to work for me. It’s second nature in person, but I just can’t pay attention to it on the tube. Plus, for most circumstances the video game’s auto transmission works pretty well for racing. I say, get someone in a real car. It’s more natural and applicable.

PPS-

One thing that one of my ‘students’ had trouble with was learning the interaction of neutral/gear to clutch in/out to engine on/off, etc. Therefore, I think some people would really benefit from a rundown of the actual mechanics of it all. To be able to visualize what happens when they move levers in the car.

DoYouEvenShift > hethoughtofcars
07/30/2015 at 10:24

I learned to drive when I was about 12 in an 80s 944 one late dummer night. Ive been able to teach a few people successfully. The best piece of advice I can give is to not treat the clutch pedal like an on-off switch. That’s what I always notice people doing when trying to learn.

It would be very difficult with a video game. Lack of pedal feedback, vehicle motion, sense of acceleration and perception of distance and speed cannot be recreated in a game. Buuut...It will help to point them in the right direction.

Its like trying to simulate sex with a game, you get the basics. But nothing more.

hethoughtofcars > TylerLinner
07/30/2015 at 13:23

Were we separated at birth?!? Seriously that’s almost the exact reply I would give if I hadn’t written the post. :)

Even though it deviates a bit from the question: I feel your pain. I’v gotten much better at teaching and being patient with people learning. While that’s all good, the people I’ve tried to get to drive my cars have had pretty no interest in learning to shift for themselves. They’ve only been trying because my car had 3 pedals and perhaps because I am always talking about how great they are. When it’s not intuitive within a few minutes they tend to give up and go back to their autos/slushboxes/CVTs. Basically, they are not enthusiasts and are completely mystified why I’d want to do the “extra work” that comes with a manual transmission.

I’ve offered to teach my girlfriend multiple times, and she always refuses. Oh, well.

Ah, youth. The stakes get much higher when you are married. When we had to get a new car a few months ago, my wife absolutely refused to consider a stick. I eventually managed to get her to “settle” on a Mazda3 even though she loved the CX-5. The transmission, though? That wasn’t even up for debate. (Sidenote: The Mazda has a Tiptronic mode which is absolutely not like driving a manual, at all.) It was her car that got totaled and needed replacement, though, so I didn’t press too much for the right transmission. Now, however, she is claiming that when it’s my turn to get a car it must be an auto too! Um, yeah, no. The debate gets shockingly heated however.

Going back to my wife, she never learned how to ride a bike, so when I talk about down-shifting for more power she has no idea. If you can’t understand the basics, like how power gets from the engine to the wheels, the need for a clutch,why you’d shift when and even the concept of neutral is unnatural. More advanced things like engine braking, lugging the engine, or heel-toeing is way too foreign to learn in a couple parking lot sessions...

And yes I do the same thing when driving an auto that causes me to put my right hand on the lever to change gears. I’ve even been accused of not knowing how to drive an automatic because I subconsciously lift off the gas when it would be time to shift!

hethoughtofcars > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable)
07/30/2015 at 13:31

Don’t worry about it. Although whenever someone starts a statement with ‘not to be...” it is always followed by the comment being exactly that.

In any case, even though I’m sure my technique could use some work the people I’ve attempted to teach all have one thing in common: they didn’t really want to learn to drive a manual. They are not enthusiasts, and are basically humoring me because I have a stick. When they find it isn’t intuitive they just walk away.

hethoughtofcars > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie
07/30/2015 at 13:33

My only issue is that driving in real life traffic with a clutch for the first few times can easily scare you away. Things like stalling in traffic is always embarrassing. Thanks for the tip on Dirt Rally though!

hethoughtofcars > Nibby
07/30/2015 at 13:43

My family didn’t own manual transmission cars because they were enthusiasts. They bought them because they were cheap! :P

Even though it was the late ‘80’s our Corolla still had a carburetor(!) and didn’t have a radio or even air conditioning when my dad bought it new off the lot.

hethoughtofcars > Hiroku
07/30/2015 at 14:12

Europe is much different when it comes to licensing obviously. From tiered Motorcycle licenses to hours long driving tests. My sister lives in Norway and her husband has never been able to drive a manual. For the record: I didn’t try to teach him and fail, my sister did. When he got his license in Norway it is specifically only for automatics. :P

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > hethoughtofcars
07/30/2015 at 14:15

Oh I know, but the preface meant that I knew I was going to sound like a dick, but wasn’t intentionally trying to be mean.

The willingness to learn makes a big difference. Perhaps for those who aren’t really all that interested, try an approach that it’s a safety issue. Concoct an elaborate story about them being stranded somewhere and their only hope of escape is driving an old manual beater out to safety. They don’t have to enjoy it the way you do, but they will at least be aware of the process and be able to drive anything should the situation arise, however unlikely it may be.

If that doesn’t help get people at least marginally inrested, then maybe find some new friends? #shrugemoji

soFreshAndsoClean > hethoughtofcars
07/30/2015 at 15:21

Ive taught a bunch of my friends how to drive manual on my beater hachiroku and they all learned successfully. A couple tips on teaching how to drive a manual:

1. Take your time when teaching, and explain to your student this is a life long skill and it’ll take some time to learn but it’ll be worth it.

2. I always start out by explaining how clutches work (Oreo teaching method) and why one would want to drive a manual (more control, more usable power, sometimes more fuel economy, etc.)

3. I’ll then back up these explanations with a little practical application by going for a drive with the student in places where driving is pleasurable (usually mountain drives) and explaining why I’m shifting or not shifting.

4. Remember that teaching is a two way street. You have to be willing to teach and the student has to be willing to learn.

5. Good luck!

hethoughtofcars > Nauraushaun
07/30/2015 at 15:25

As to the teaching method, I do explain a little more but (for the length of this post and even in real life) it essentially boils down to letting out the clutch while pushing on the throttle. It takes practice and patience to find the engagement/disengagement point, the right amount of gas to give it to smoothly move away from a stop, when to upshift/downshift, etc. The reason I have been more unsuccessful than not, I believe has more to do with the person I’m helping not really having much desire to learn in the first place. Then again, I also could just be really bad at explaining things.

And true about the revs thing in video games. No one should be redlining second gear in a Costco parking lot. :)

hethoughtofcars > McMike
07/30/2015 at 15:31

Agreed. When I posted that article on what you learned to drive stick on I was shocked by how many people said video games. I didn’t think that was really possible. So that’s what brought up the idea for this post.

I’ve also noticed clutches have become even easier and more natural than before and a few of my cars have had a “hill holder” feature that I would have loved to have had when I was learning to drive...

TylerLinner > hethoughtofcars
07/30/2015 at 15:39

Yeah, manumatics are only useful when performance driving, because autos hate performance driving. Last year I rented a car to drive up to LSPR from Detroit, and I’m SO SO SO SO SO glad it had a manumatic. I’ll be looking for one in the next car I rent, for sure.

I’ll tell you what, though, I’m pretty stubborn and if I were to buy another car I would be buying a manual. If my SO wanted to drive it, she could learn; there’s no excuse for not knowing how to drive a stick when it’s sitting in your driveway. She may not like the manual, but I don’t like the auto. It evens out, and I’m sure it’s similar for you.

Yikes, everyone should know how to ride a bike. It’s the world’s most versatile vehicle! It’s not hard to see what’s going on in different driving circumstances if you watch an automatic’s tach, but then it all comes back to whether she cares that much (obviously not).

The autos... sometimes I get SO DAMN BORED. Seriously. Give me something to do in the car. Not just a flappy paddle. My legs need to move. My arms need to move. Humans are built to move, not sit (I bicycle for transportation, so I get twitchy in a chair)!

Hiroku > hethoughtofcars
07/30/2015 at 17:47

In my country I don’t think it’s even possible to get a license without driving a manual.

Nauraushaun > hethoughtofcars
07/30/2015 at 23:15

It definitely doesn’t help if they don’t want to learn. I think the girls I’ve taught were pretty keen, and were willing to learn a little bit about how it works to make things easier for all of us.

Unfortunately not :P